S-E-X
I figured after discovering that I have “Borderline Christian Values,” I might as well publish this post that I have been working on – thoughts on sex. And God. And the church. And reality. Because somehow in my mind, those things all get very messy very quickly.
Over the past 6 months or so, I have been having some very interesting conversations with friends and acquaintances – both Christians and Non-Christians alike. I am not trying to be some cliche writer that goes straight to the topic of sex because it’s controversial, but legitimately it seems to be a grey area that begs questioning. I’m not referring to the logistics about sex (we can turn to Cosmo for those details), but more about the topic of sexuality. About what it looks like to be a woman or man and be sexual. What it looks like to be single and sexual. What it looks like to love God and be single and sexual.
The Christian Words of Wisdom: JUST DON’T.
I think I can speak for a lot of us who grew up in the Christian church when I say, sexuality can be an overwhelming 
subject. It can be hard to talk about, or hard to ask about. For most of my Christian life, I thought that “Good Christian Girls” loved Jesus, and didn’t really do much else than kiss their boyfriends. And then, in my teens I really struggled with guilt because I realized that there is a lot of grey area between kissing and sex, and no one prepared me to hash that part out. The church’s only message to be about sexuality was “DON’T.” It said nothing about who I was as a sexual being, and how to think or feel about it. I assumed that I was wrong for wanting to do more than kissing, and moreover that I was probably the only Christian girl in the world that felt this way.
And now, in my mid-twenties I find it interesting that most of the people with really good attitudes toward sexual identity that I have met – did not grow up in the church. They are people who were never told “JUST DON”T,” but instead “It’s all good – you are sexual, embrace it.” And somehow, in their twenties these people seem to have a good mentality toward their sexual desires – regardless how much sex they are choosing to have or not have.
I remember the first time I had a friend admit out loud, ”I’m a super horny person. Most guys can’t keep up with me.” She loves God. And she wasn’t ashamed. She just said it like it was no big deal. She had come to Christ later in her twenties, and so she wasn’t indoctrinated in the “Shame Belief.” As I was hearing this, I felt like I had been hit by a train. The thought was so surreal. “Is it ok to like sex like that?“
In light of that last comment, let me insert the disclaimer: I wasn’t raised under a rock. I never wore a bonnet, I wasn’t home schooled, and yes my mother did have the “Sex Talk” with me. Regardless of my seemingly “normal” upbringing in regards to sex, things begun to get difficult when looking at the bases between kissing and sex. It just seemed to me that there was never any middle ground - you were either a person who didn’t believe in God or “God’s rules”, you approached sexuality as you wanted, and never felt any guilt about it – ORyou loved God, bought the rules, and didn’t do more than kiss. And now as an adult, I am realizing that there are HUNDREDS of us that are caught in the middle. We are sexual, single, love God – and somehow are trying to make sense of what is and isn’t ok on Saturday nights at 2 am with boyfriends and girlfriends.
Most of my friends consider me an open person – I will tell you whatever you want to know about dating, sex, make outs, jeans that make your ass look great. Sometimes they will pull me aside and ask questions that they might be afraid to ask. From my girlfriend’s who are Chrisitans, I get this question a lot:
“From a Christian Woman’s perspective, how much is too much?”
To be honest, I’m still not sure how to answer that with a good conscience. I’ve sat in sessions with my counselor, hashing out that very issue. Even after professional help, I have decided how to reconcile things in my own mind, but I’m still not sure that I am completely right.
Epic Love.
Let me tell you about a conversation that I had with a friend over Chipotle a few weeks back. She is an amazing person. She grew up in a very conservative church. She then fled her very conservative church and decide to pursue a different lifestyle. Handfuls of experiences later, she is struggling with the same questions as the rest of us.
During this conversation, I was telling her that I know someone who is bi-sexual. It’s not so much that person is into her same gender, it’s just that she is looking for that “All Consuming Love” and doesn’t want to limit herself to gender. Admittedly, she prays to God that she will fall in love with a man and can have the children and the white picket fence, but if she happens to fall madly, insanely, completely in love with a woman – she wouldn’t want to walk away because of gender. Upon hearing this story, my Chipotle friend slams her fist on the table and says “EXACTLY.” She too is looking for what we call epic love. The kind of stuff that shakes you to your core. The stuff they write books about. The stuff that is, in her words, almost psychotic. And she too, hopes she finds epic love with a man – she admits that she likes the male genitalia a lot and would be sad to have to give it up. But, if epic love comes with a vagina, my Chipotle friend is going to be fine with that.
In my mind, there are two pictures I see being painted. One is that sexuality is, what I would call, “Not Enough.” This is the quiet identity, the message sent to us mainly by the church or other conservatives: that it is something that happens in bedrooms. It is something that we don’t talk about a whole lot. That sexuality is something that happens to you when you are older, or when you are married or when you are ready. But before that, you should just make out with your boyfriends. And if you have dirty little thoughts, then you are probably a guilty sinner. This is the mentality that I had growing up.
The other picture is where sexuality is “Everything.” This is where I see a lot of the world falling into. Sexuality is erotica. It is pornography. It is women in bikinis on the cover of magazines. It is a passionate, unencumbered erotic connection between 
two people. It is in marketing campaigns. It is ….well really, all over the place. I don’t love this idea either though. I feel like it misses part of it – the human part. The soft part that happens between the sheets of two people who really love each other. I’m not quite sure how else to explain it, but I know that Hollywood has a plastic and overblown image of what sexuality should be.
So how is it, that us Christians go about landing in the middle? For me, I do know a few things. For one, I want to wait. I don’t want to have slept with my husband before I get married. I get it why it is worth waiting for. And fighting for. Because, yes, I do think it should be a struggle. There should be tension. I believe the tension shows you part of the other person – shows you who they are. Shows you how you look out for one another, how you put the other’s interests first. It shows you how you can work as a team, long before your marriage vows are exchanged. And in the words of a good friend, there is a process of discovery takes place. And maybe it’s the traditionalist hopeless romantic in me – but I love the idea of starting out your marriage with some of that discovery. Still having parts of your identity, sexuality, and intimacy that are left for the finding.
The Classic Question – How Far is Too Far?
This still leaves a lot of grey matter out in the open. There are 3 whole bases between kissing and bedding that are left to be fought over. I oscillate on my opinion over those. I have Christian friends who do everything but intercourse. I have Christian friends that do nothing below the belt. I have Christian friends who only kiss. Are we right? Are we justifying things? What does Jesus think? Hell if I know.
But I do know this: a good friend of mine once told me – the level of sexual intimacy that you are sharing should be equivalent to the emotional intimacy that exists in your real relationship. This is probably the best explanation I had ever heard when it comes to an approach at health sexuality.
So you might be a couple that is ok with oral sex…eventually. Your second date might not be the time. Maybe oral sex is something that you grow into. Maybe that is an area that you celebrate when you arrive there. And, as a couple, you determine what that looks like through the course of time.
I know in my own relationships, the words of my friend is an objective that I always try to keep in mind. Sex should be the outpouring of what is already going on. Which means that you should be having memories with friends, romantic dates, emotionally intimate moments, laughter, adventures – and the sexually charged moments are the celebrations of all of those things. And together you fight to navigate what to do with those sexually charged moments.
I suppose the moment that sexuality switches to simply being about horniness or orgasms, it makes me think. I mean, I know it’s not always going to be some specifically meaningful experience, but I think it’s a good plumb line.
Has the Church Failed Us?
One of the most interesting things that I have uncovered with my conversations with lots of Christians and non-Christians alike is the nature of their first sexual experiences. In general, the non-Christians that I have come across where so much smarter in their choices when it came to protection. IE- they wore condoms. They had foresight, and ensured that they weren’t doing something stupid.
On the other hand, you find this funny logic within the Church sometimes. Buying condoms (or other contraceptives) means that you are thinking about having sex, or planning to do it. Which, according to the Bible , is wrong. So, instead of protecting ourselves and one another, we get in these hot and heavy moments, and find ourselves unprepared. And then, having unprotected sex and putting ourselves and others at a huge risk. In some weird way, it seems like if we didn’t mean for it to happen, and it was just an accident – it makes it a less guilty action. Twisted I know, but you’d be surprised how many Christians have told me that they followed this line of thinking in their preliminary sexual experiences.
So, if “Don’t do it” is all that we are hearing…and then we are doing it anyway, but putting each other at risk – do you see where this is all wrong? I wonder why I have this overwhelming feeling like the Church has failed us. Left us with nothing about sexuality, other than unpreparedness and guilt.
But even in light of this feeling of failure, I have to ask myself some really hard questions: If I am mentoring high school girls, would I tell them to go ahead and have sex? To buy condoms “Just to be sure?” OR, if I had a daughter, would I tell her to buy condoms and show her how to use them? Would I tell her that it is important for her to wait to be “ready” to become sexually active?
My first inclination would be no. To just tell her to wait. Tell her to have fun, go slow, and not to let her boyfriend down her jeans. Funny though, isn’t that how we got into this predicament in the first place?
I’m not sure how to answer all of the questions right. And I don’t even know if there are right answers to be found. I don’t know if we all just should aim high, try hard, and keep the reality of our decision in the grey area a secret. I don’t know if we should talk about sex more, or less, or just give up on trying to figure it out all together. Or maybe we can take the approach of conservative christian colleges – get married within 3 months of knowing one another, so premarital sex isn’t really an issue.
I do know this though, if there are any of you out there who seem to have it a bit more figured out, your insight might be helpful to the rest of us.
hi, i am a 27 years old boy, interesting, i am studing at NCKU tainan, I wish to know you more, my e-mail is niknam.jahromi@gmail.com
regards
nik
Hey ya,
I like your post. It is great that people are willing to come out and just bring all the cards to the table, to say what is on their minds. I am relatively new blogger, and I enjoy reading other peoples.
As far a sex is concerned, I was raised Catholic. No sex till marriage. Thats it, there was a massive grey area like you mentioned. I was not supposed to ever put myself in any type of sexual situation, therefore buying condoms was out of the question. But as a teenager, hormones are raging, it would have been smart. Thankfully nothing big happened. Then came college. I started, for the first time in my life, public school. And it opened my eyes that there are so many different opinions out there. I enjoyed them and debating them, not just about sex, but about life. Bottom Line, you have to do what you feel is right. Nobody can make that choice except you. I think it is perfectly fine to have a monogamous sexual relationship, I dont think that having a new partner every night is right, and I think its wrong. Its your decision, not your bfs, church, parents, bibles decision, but yours.
Jenni,
Very interesting topic. It is never an easy answer but I like what you had to say. I know what advice I would give to my children and I guess also just let them know consequences of the choice they make.
Tricky topic, but I think you summarized what a lot of Christians feel. Nice post and great images.
Jenni,
I love all the pics in your article. You made it a lot more interesting to read. My favorite was the one with the girl and a lock around her belt loop.
I’m glad you are talking about this topic. I think we all have different views. I’m glad you put this on the table so more conversations can be had…especially the ones about what we tell youth group girls that we mentor.
I take Mike Erre’s stand that it’s ok to be a Christian and be sexual and to have those thoughts and feelings. They aren’t dirty. They are just how God made us.
I do have certain boundaries with my fiancee which I’m glad we’ve established. I think it will make our wedding night very special, but we established them together. I’m glad we talked about it at the beginning of our relationship, even though we’ve had to revisit the topic several times.
I don’t agree with your friend that our physical relationship should match our emotional connection relationship with our significant other. Maybe I’m misunderstanding, but I believe you can draw closer together in emotional intimacy and hone in those hormones as a sign to one another that you can have self-control, which will be necessary in the confines of a marriage relationship (i.e. one spouse may really want to have an affair, but if you’ve gone through trust issues in the area of sexuality and you’ve both kept your boundaries, I’d be much more willing to trust my spouse if a potential affair situation comes into the picture).
So, those are my thoughts. I’m glad you wrote this and I had fun talking with you last night!
So scandalous!
Love your thoughts. But where are the answers?
Why can’t we be okay without having the answers?
I think sexuality is a part of who we are as humans. Sexuality is not sex. Sex is an act. Sex can happen with emotional connectedness or not. When sex (the act) combines with emotional intimacy (in marriage) we connect to our partners the way God designed. Sex should be a life-giving, life-uniting act. I think in order to be a life-giving, life-uniting act, it has to involve emotional intimacy that, hopefully, the union of marriage brings. In order to have life-giving/uniting sex, you have to be willing to sacrifice, right? Like, well maybe this time, I won’t get a big “O”, but I am being intimate with my partner and I want them to be fulfilled. And this uniting is not a give and take, but a union (a becoming one flesh to be biblical). Am I making sense? (says the unmarried virgin
)
I think for your friend to be ‘horny’ or whatever is not dishonoring at all. To be in tune with our sexuality should never be labeled as ‘dirty’ or even unholy. That’s what gets us into problems-when we squelch how God made us and heap unwarranted shame onto sexuality. God made us sexual beings. Sexuality is spiritual. Read “Sex God” by Rob Bell. I think you’ll dig it!
Sex is one of the topics everyone thinks of and considers yet does not often verbalize on what they are thinking. You do a good job of summarizing the topic though in your post.
The point of evaluating what one’s sexuality is and where it comes from and what it is for is been misplaced in our discussions today in culture and also the church at large.
Sex is similar to salvation, when men consider the implications and the ends or means to the ends. Every human being has an opinion on the why and what of sex & salvation, yet only one opinion or in the case of salvation, one way counts and that is the one of our God and Lord, Christ Jesus.
And the idea that sex is all there is to love or marriage is false. Sex is not love, but simply a physical expression of marital love. While sex outside of marriage is actually violence to the soul & body of a human being.
The Bible is full of sexual interaction, the rape of Tamar, the adultery of David, the marriage of the Solomon & the Shulamite and the often times confusing passages of 1 Corinthians 7. And the reason we have the Bible share God’s perspective on sex is this, “hope.” see Romans 15:1- 13, especially verse 4. That text & the main principles should be self explanatory.
My final say is this, as a single, 37 year old male, and trying not to be too cryptic — stay true to the direction of Jesus and His words. Love the Lord your God, and love your neighbor as yourself, and in this you will fulfill your being as sexual and complete.
I enjoyed this article and could relate to the fact that the church has failed us. I have very raw feelings about this. My parents are Christians, and to them (and to many of my Christian friends’ parents), sex was a H-U-G-E issue – bigger than being unkind or hating others, larger than dishonesty, more dire than leveling someone you love with hurtful words. It was so huge growing up that sex, my parents, and church were all in one big bundle in my mind. There were boundaries that were crossed in the frenzy to keep me “pure”, and it still sickens me. I think things have become a little more balanced in the last few years, but the church definitely needs to quit creating issues that it deems bigger than others. Those raised under these doctrines are suffering the consequences in their married lives.
jenni brown, once again you’ve stirred/churned up the elements of a topic that we certainly can’t seem to resolve or get any closer to the clarity that so many of us want. i applaud your writing on this topic and honestly communicating how direction from those institutions we’ve deemed to be the “lighthouses” of hope, so to speak, seems to be lacking or inadequate. we’ve been designed/created with passions that ebb and flow like the tide. as human beings, regardless of our position eternally, we are tasked with how we respond to those passions. do we live by our passions or do we bridle our passions as we would a horse so as to direct our passions with proper ordination? the battle rages on for both married folk and single folk alike. sexuality continues to become a “hot” issue and clearly remains to be mysterious.
So I hate stirring up contention, because I tend to be very “by the book”, but honestly, sometimes the book is right!
That said, these are my thoughts.
I think the part of this that I take the most issue with is the “epic love” vagina/penis debate. My questions to you is when did sin become negotiable? When did finding epic love become a higher priority than meeting God’s standards?
We sin when we are no longer satisfied with God. Paul is so adamant when he speaks of sex and sexual immorality. Our bodies are not our own. (1 Corinthians 6:19) We were created to be living sacrifices. (Romans 12: 1) Our lives are meant to be lived to please God. We are His creations. Whether we like it or not, He has final say over what is and isn’t ok. Epic love with a vagina, guess what, for a girl, not ok.
I am not saying this is not a very real issue. I am saying we may be asking the wrong questions. Our culture is clearly starved for love in many senses of the words. Why are we so utterly desperate for this love? What parts of us have not been nourished?
Recently a Christian girlfriend of mine decided she was going to start dating women. And she believes she has found this “Epic love” you have talked about. She was molested by a neighbor for 4 years when she was younger. Being touched by a man used to terrify her after that. She got over it for the most part, but reasonably never fully felt safe. Then she met her current girlfriend and hasn’t turned back. She claims that God wants her to be happy. But when did our happiness become more important than God’s call of purity on our lives? Part of loving God is loving his standards. Sin was done to my friend at a very young age, and now she is expressing the pain of that sin through committing her own. I am not blaming her for this outward expression of what was done to her, I am merely saying that there are deeper reasons for this seemingly insatiable desire to find this “Epic love”. And finding this epic love does not solve the problem; healing the wound does.
God’s voice speaks so loudly in the area of sexuality, with both the good and bad. I am glad you are talking about this and I do think you have brought up some powerful concerns. But I think you are listening to the wrong voices. In the end, we answer to God. Not the world, or our non-Christian friends. They are not our standard, no matter how jealous we are of the fact that they seem to be in touch with their sexuality; He is.
And He speaks. God is so passionate about this subject. Humans skew (or just straight up ignore) His words to please themselves. I think I am beginning to understand what you mean by “feeling that tension” in relationships, but I also think your emotions matching physical affection line is not solid enough. It’s a good basis for the beginning of a relationship (recently I have found myself telling multiple friends that they shouldn’t be doing their relationships backwards…i.e. hooking up, then dating), but self control isn’t the last fruit of the spirit for nothing.
I have also been speaking with one of my non-christian friends about her sex life with her boyfriend recently. As silly as this may seem to you, I never realized what an integral part of a relationship sex was for most couples not seeking God. People really think you don’t know a person until you go to bed with them. But here is what they also don’t know: God. God fills in the gaps of our uncertainty. God is not going to give us standards for our lives that we cannot keep. And His grace fills in the gaps of our not knowing. As Christians, what sets us apart from the rest of the world is that we listen to the voice of God. We trust Him to direct and guide us. He will tell us if a person is right for us regardless of having slept with them or not. By all means, go to pre-marital counseling and take advantage of every opportunity to figure out if they’re the one, but God gave us this standard and all we have to do is obey. HE SPEAKS. We ignore, because we don’t like what He says. We ignore because we don’t trust Him and because we think we can do it better.
But He will not let us fall. Ultimately, He is what satisfies our desire for this epic love. In loneliness, in loss, in thinking we know and then finding out we don’t, He is what fills us, His is the only voice that matters. So I would encourage you to sit back and listen. To Him as opposed to other people.
Romans might be a good place to start. It doesn’t offer a list of behaviors that are ok and not ok, but it expresses God’s heart pretty clearly on the issues of our bodies and immorality. Pray over those passages and see what He says. I know for me, sometimes I spend so much time discussing an issue with other people, that I forget to discuss it with God.
Ps, thoughts about oral sex: part of my understanding of the purpose of physical intimacy is the knowledge it brings of the other person. And this knowledge is something that should only be fully established after marriage. It seems obvious this knowledge should include what someone’s genetailia looks/feels/tastes like. Who cares if its not sex organ to sex organ, oral sex is clearly also not an option. In my ignorance, a lot of this seems like common sense to me. Granted I have never been there, but I am almost thankful for that.
Hope I didn’t offend anyone! Topics like this scare me because my strong opinions tend to drive people away…I am posting this because Jenni is making me…
Love you Jenni!
ok…I have some responding to do.
First things first. Nik, although flattered – I’m dating someone. But please feel free to come back and keep reading!
ConfessionsofasingleIt – Welcome! Thanks for your thoughts, and thanks for reading
Now Mel…hahahaa. Yes, I did encourage Mel to write this stuff out. Please understand – I got all of this in a FB email!
(you would be shocked how many people forgo comments and write me scathing personal emails about their thoughts – which I do love…just think that the group benefit from their thoughts too).
I’m glad you wrote it out. A few things:
1. Epic Love – those individuals that I talk about are not Christians. My heart does go out for them – because I do agree that God is the answer to Epic Love Hunger. However, if you’re not a fan of God, you can see how that might be problematic.
2. Sex and an integral part: I see where this gets tricky – and maybe you see what I mean by the fact that it is everything or nothing. For a lot of people, you’re right, sex is something that they think is a given. If I didn’t know God, I’d most likely say the same thing. But I do know God, and He has these rules (like you said in Romans), and here we are in life trying to hash it out.
Let me ask you a question. I’m going to pick your brain a bit. I know you have some reservations when it comes to exchanging too much intimacy in relationships (you’d said you need to wait until marriage for that level of connection), so what do you think people should do in dating. Let’s say a couple that has been together a year? Are you saying they should only kiss? And what does their only kissing say about their emotional intimacy that you approve/like?
3. Oral Sex. Sounds like it’s out of the question for you before a wedding day. That’s ok
Yes they should only kiss. Sex is a privilege. A reward if you will. Good things come to those who wait. Truly honoring God does not lead to disappointment and does come at a price. His Son saved our lives- following His “rules” is the least we can do.
But that’s just it, I don’t consider them to be rules. He created us, don’t you think He would know what’s best for us? These are guidelines He puts in place so we don’t break ourselves in half. I trust my Father when he tells me the stove is hot, I don’t need to touch it and get burned.
And I’ll say it again: pray. Read the bible and pray it out. Truly seek Him and you can’t go wrong; He won’t let you. He gave us consciences, He gave us His word, and He gave us Himself. Ultimately these are the only resources we need to figure this out.
People are great, but just remember, at the end of the road, its us and Him- no one else.
And I’m not kidding, this oral sex thing baffles me…can you explain how it’s possibly ok? In the words of one of my roommates who I had read your blog, oral sex is still called sex…kissing is not called “kissing sex” because it’s not sex. This is why kissing is okay, and oral sex isn’t. Anything involving the sex organs is sex. I seriously don’t get it, but if someone wants to explain it to me, I want to listen.
I didn’t answer your last question…
Honestly, I don’t really care what only kissing says about a couples emotional intimacy. One of my roommates and her boyfriend have chosen to not kiss until their wedding day. Are you telling me they have no intimacy?
Granted, this is not the path I would choose to take, however I don’t think there is necessarily a correlation between physical intimacy and emotional intimacy. I do personally believe that a relationship should be completely stable whether physical expression is a part of it or not. If it falls apart when a couple can’t touch each other, I believe there are bigger problems at hand. Again, not saying I would choose this, I will want to express my love physically for my significant other. But I hope you understand my point.
I once head a couple say that one of the most intimate thing they do is pray together. When you invite the spirit in, it brings unification and a previously undiscovered, supernatural closeness. I thought this was interesting.
I had hoped to have this conversation with you in person, as I don’t see this topic as just being mere blog-fodder for your other readers. But this will work. I apologize now, it is going to be long.
There are a few general things I want to address. First off, are you allowing your world view to shape your view of God’s word? Or are you using God’s word to shape your world view? This may seem like a simple question, but its infinitely important.
The second is our identity. When I say “our,” I’m referring to you, and me, all those who call Christ savior, and prayerfully those who don’t yet but someday will. Our identity is not: single, sexual, American, a young adult, etc.
We are: God’s child, Christ’s friend, a saint, the salt and the light of the earth, a branch of the true vine, the temple of the Holy Spirit, and a citizen of heaven. We are united with our Creator. We are bought with a price. We belong to God.
Honestly, even as I type that I am baffled that the God who created the universe, and every gigantic and minuscule thing in it, knows me to my core, and still loves me enough to have gladly taken my punishment in order for me to know and love him.
From that vantage point, the idea of “rules” seems silly, and kind of abrasive. It is hard to understand the view that we must know better than God. That’s like saying God just haphazardly threw together some ridiculous guidelines for the purpose of ruining our fun. Or that his standards and methods of living are “outdated.”
But when you talk about a gray area, I think you’re looking through gray sunglasses. Because when life is approached from a biblical standpoint, there is white and there is black. God gave us guidelines SO THAT we wouldn’t be confused or misled. Having created us, he knows exactly what makes us work the best. He knows what doesn’t work. He has our best in mind.
I know that you know this, but I want to remind you who this comes from. I am not someone who was raised in the church by any means. I didn’t know who God was, or believe in him or any of his “rules.” I did not grow up in the “just don’t” culture.
I was taught about sex at the age of 4. By 15, in an attempt to familiarize me with counter-culture erotica, I was taken with my father and his professional-dominatrix wife to sex toy shops. At 17, my first boyfriend was allowed to spend the night with me at my mom’s house.
My first two years of college were a blur of “relationships” with plenty of fraudulent emotional/physical intimacy, hook-ups, sugar daddies, pornography addiction, and plenty more things that I’m not going to write on here.
I was raised to believe that sex was happy, healthy, normal, fun – outside of marriage (both of my parents being married multiple times), and the idea of waiting for marriage was thought absolutely absurd. And trust me, I was taught to be “safe.” But a thin layer of latex doesn’t protect against emotional distress, and its a disease that can fester and grow without immediate symptoms.
After a short visit at rock bottom (a place I reached in my attempt to find “epic love”…. no, seriously), I reprioritized my “self” and cut out (traditional) sex outside of a long-term and emotionally intimate relationship. Though it looked like I had “fixed” myself in some capacity, I still wasn’t right. The “gray area” still existed, and I hadn’t solved anything by merely ceasing to have sexual intercourse. It was not until I A. knew who God truly is (all of him) and B. stopped having sex altogether (all of it) that I actually began to heal.
“Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.” (2 Cr 4:2)
All that being said, my very black and white view on sexuality is NOT a result of the church, or how it has failed us. (More on that in a minute.) It is not the fruit of a vague blanket of guilt being cloaked on otherwise fair game.
It is the result of eons more experience than God intended for me, and the healing of some deep gashes that only he can provide. It is the result of first knowing who he is – fully and completely, what he wants from me, and WHY. It is not because he delights in ruining our fun. It is because our calloused hearts and worldly eyes don’t recognize what real joy is. We turn from trusting that God wants to provide that joy and go off in search of it ourselves.
What I am saying is that I have seen and experienced both sides. I would stake my life on the fact that God does, in fact, know better.
Have we lost all sight of WHY we are created to have and enjoy sex? When Genesis says that the two shall become one, it isn’t just in a marital agreement, or just physically – it is because our sexuality, our physical intimacy, is in direct correlation to the bond that we share with the other person. Sex is the final step in two separate people becoming one flesh, to unite them for life.
As Mike Erre says, when we have sex (like I said, whichever kind – sex is not limited to one variety) and then break up, and have sex and break up, etc, it is as though we are licking a frozen pole and ripping our tongue off. We are tearing ourselves away and leaving pieces behind. Is this what God designed for us? Where is the beauty in that?
Now where the church (or whatever other authority is attempting to do the right thing but in the wrong way, it seems) is failing us is in the why. When we are children and our parents tell us not to skip around the pool, we have to know why. “Because I said so” is never an acceptable answer. The not skipping is not an unacceptable guideline, as the chance of slipping on the wet concrete, hitting your head, and slipping unconscious into the pool is a realistic possibility. But kids hear the words “because I said so” and immediately feel required to continue.
I don’t blame the questions from those who have just been taught that it’s “because he says so.” But to say that this standard (God’s standard, not the world’s or the church’s) is therefore unreasonable is illogical. God knows best.
“‘For I know the plans I have for you,’ declares the Lord. ‘Plans to prosper you and not to harm you; plans to give you hope and a future. Then you will come to me and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you,’ declares the Lord, ‘and will bring you back from captivity.’” (Jer 29:11-14)
Additionally, as I’m sure most of us have experienced, it is easy to misconstrue infatuation for true emotional intimacy. When emotional intimacy is the basis for our progression of physical intimacy, we walk on thin ice. Physical intimacy (as stated earlier) has a kind of astounding way of fooling us into feeling a much stronger emotional intimacy. We were created that way for a reason. So now all of a sudden, we are neck deep in super intense and even (as you said) psychotic, all-consuming, “epic” love.
But what happens when the fallacy meets reality and you find yourself with someone who doesn’t fit the profile a suitable, life-long partner for you? Just rip our tongue off the ice, bandage our raw flesh as best we can, and start over? How many times will we go through that before we learn to listen to our Father, who knows best?
As you said, our sexual relationship with our partner should be the outpouring of what is already going on – a lifelong commitment and solid bond, built on rock. Not our feelings. (Satan has a tricky way of pulling those strings to his own advantage, trust me.)
And ultimately and most importantly, are we glorifying God in the way that we live?
Because at the very root of it, it is not about us. It’s about him. He created us for his own pleasure, and we exist to glorify him. It’s not about the satisfaction of our own desires, but about worshiping him with our lives. Actions speak much louder than words.
I also love Jesus; therefore, I seek to live a life that makes him proud – the end.
As I told you a few weeks ago, I’m reading a really great book that I think would be worth reading. It’s called Choosing God’s Best, and it definitely speaks to our generation and circumstances, as well as others. I just read about how the idea of dating was non-existent until relatively recently, and how it’s changed everything.
“A hundred years – the lifetime of dating in America – is a drop in a bucket to God. In the middle of such massive changes in our culture and relationships, one thing has not changed: god’s standards. They are the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8). God has sent us no revisions to His original requirements for sexual purity and no amendments to His principles. He hasn’t changed His view on marriage, and He still believes in lifetime commitment… As He promises, we will reap what we sow. (Galatians 6:7-8)”
I feel like I have so much more to say but I’d really like to have the rest of this conversation in person. This comment is already far too long and I haven’t even touched on some of the important points you brought up yet! Aye.
So…. lunch?
Mel and Bridge… Let’s go to lunch.
To answer some quick questions – Mel, no I don’t think that the couple who doesn’t kiss doesn’t have intemacy. Physical interactions aren’t the basis of intemacy. We know that – they are the expression. The questions have more to do with what kind of expressions are acceptable in God’s eyes. I’m not talking of taking God totally out of the picture and making your own rules. (Which ps Bridge, you did an amazing job of phrasing your argument).
I do agree with both of you in understanding the “Why.” I’m sure that we can all exchange some really good stories that tell our discovery in why. And I do agree God’s rules are good. The are necessary. (And yes, I get that calling them rules is almost insulting – good point again Bridge), it is about relationships and honoring God – which I am all about.
Oral Sex – I never disclosed what my personal thoughts are on it. I am asking questions. Actually you can notice in all of this, most of it is me asking questions about things that I have seen and heard, and comparing boundaries of my friends. It doesn’t always mean that I agree with my friends. Of course I can understand why this subject would make both of you have strong opinions (and well stated), but also understand that I am not stating any of this stuff to be facts.
As I concluded, I wouldn’t know what to do if I had to tell a teenage girl. I feel like we live in a world of “Both” and tensions over those two extremes. Part of living out the Christian walk is learning how to be relevant and loving to one extreme, while keeping to the ideals and heart behind the other. And all the while, seeking God’s heart on things. I’m not asking how we as Christians can get away with murder, or do the least amount of “Following God” and still make it count – but rather, how do we hash out some of this stuff in real life? What does honoring God look like? How do we live a life that shows that we love Him, in the reality of life?
That is a question that often baffles me. It’s not always so easily answered. And a lot of the time, I question whether or not we have answered it right in the past.
So, as I said. I believe a lunch is in order. Or coffee. But you guys have to promise not to tag team me
Love you both.
needs
wants
affections
desires
passions
dreams
fantasies
pleasures
happiness
i, me, myself, whatever has this soul-felt energy to experience complete fulfillment on all these levels. my needs need to be met. the fulfillment of my wants is up to me; if i want that, i have the option to get it or not. my affections are toward things external to me that will make me feel good. i am affected internally either positively or negatively by things external to me that i either move towards or that have moved towards me. i have a choice over the affects of some, but others indiscriminately or discriminately affect me. my desires are generally for the chief end which is happiness either my own or another’s. sometimes i desire the not so good which is clearly a result of my fallen nature. my passions are those strong feelings or emotions i have towards a person or thing that ultimately direct an action. i dream of genie/my shulamite lover. i fantasize about “falling in love”. what is pleasure? and lastly, happiness/blessedness…
clearly two worlds collide in all of this: the temporal and the eternal. do i live my life to experience all that this world has to offer in so many facets in relation to how i’ve been designed or as some would say, evolved(absurdity)? so much of the time i relate with Edmund Pevensie and his being tempted by the white witch. can i live life fulfilling all of the aforementioned factors of life temporally without there being any negative results? or is the requirement for true fulfillment in all the aforementioned factors of life to live life looking beyond the temporal toward that which is eternal? the scriptures tell us the latter and that is where the rub is. will i set aside my belief in a holy God for a moment of pleasure, a small taste of turkish delight or an entire plate full? maybe i really don’t believe and should start living in coherence to that?
we are bombarded from all sides by the powers of the air/ideologies/philosophies, etc… as a believer i have experienced an increase in this bombardment as of late. i believe my faith is being tested/tried in order to be refined and further sanctified. will i pass the test? what is so amazing is that i train hard physically to maintain specific results and in no way do i approach my spiritual fitness with the same tenacity. if i was out in the wilderness like Christ was, would i give in to all the temptations? Christ’s response seems so formulaic, but it was effective against the advances of the enemy. fasting, prayer, knowledge of scripture, etc… these are my weapons for a holy life, a life set apart from the world, a life with distinction in the midst of watered down morals and license. if i don’t employ these weapons i will be defeated.
single or married, sex is to be according to God’s standard of holiness. singles remain pure/virgins with singleness of heart in devotion to Christ to effectively serve him. this is where celibacy comes in. if a single can’t live by this they look for a mate which i guess is where this dating stuff comes into play. married folks are to stay committed and keep their covenant so long as they both shall live. if this isn’t happening get help. God hates divorce right?
i’m done.
so youd tell a 13 year old girl to suck some penis?
Kristen,
No.
[...] the best place to start. (And for the record, I wouldn’t actually say that. I know after the Sex Post, some of you think I stand outside the school yard gate and hand out condoms to Jr. Highers. [...]
I stumbled upon your blog and I love how you process things though your writing. I thought it was timely to run upon this a day after I had listened to the following sermon…i feel like this guy does a great job of explaining how Christians should approach sex…however, it still doesn’t answer the question of “how far is too far”. Take a listen if you would like… http://tinyurl.com/l7gsxt
I tried to post something and it wouldn’t go through – thought I was spam… I sent something to your myspace though (yeah I don’t have your facebook)
Kelly, your note posted? :-/ Try sending it again. I don’t check Myspace very often…or you can try the Contact Me tab at the top.
I’ve been coming back to this again and again, wondering whether I should post a response or not. I’ve decided to do it. I’m doing this for you, Jenni. I think what I’m about to say will be unpopular, and in the back of my mind I can run off a long list of all the arguments previous post authors might come up with. But I love you Jenni, and so I’m opening up this part of myself and my life for you and your audience.
I’m a Christian. I was brought up in the church. I love God with all I’ve got and my greatest desire is to serve him. My boyfriend is the same. He is as passionate a man about God as I’ve ever seen one. We’ve been in a relationship for a year and a bit. We are not married but we’re heading that way. We live together and we share a bed.
We’ve been through a lot in our relationship. We started sleeping together very early on, and went back and forth a lot on the rights and wrongs of that for about the first 8 months, praying reading the bible, talking to people. I have never believed, nor do I now, that it is flat out wrong/immoral/sinful for an adult Christian couple who are intending to get married and pursuing that path prayerfully to have a sexual relationship. I don’t see the biblical basis for that and I’ve been looking into this, praying about it, talking to people etc. for a good 10 years now and in all kinds of different relationship circumstances. I think this is different for teenagers. I believe (and this is what I tell kids I talk to about this stuff) that you should only be having sex if you can handle the consequences, at a very basic level ‘Could you manage if you get knocked up?’ Me and my boyfriend have jobs, I have a degree from a good university, I have maternity rights at work…if I should get pregnant it wouldn’t be planned but we could manage. [And here I say a little prayer that this day might still be far, far off.] The are also emotional and relational consequences I could have never fathomed before embarking on a sexual relationship. Sorry if this too graphic, but I believe we are hardly ever more vulnerable than we as human beings are when having an orgasm. Allowing another person to give you and orgasm, within the framework of a committed, loving relationship – I don’t think you can get much more vulnerable than that. Thinking about how completely exposed you are in that moment is crazy and completely unique.
I believe God is a relational God. I believe He walks our way with us. That’s not to say He’s not constant or not reliable, but I believe He’s much bigger than a set of rules. God cares about our hearts and about being close to us, that’s why he threw out Old Testament Law and brought Jesus to the stage. I think He cares more about how we develop as a person in our relationship with Him than about checking off a list of do’s and don’ts. I don’t think the way me and my boyfriend live would be right for everyone, I think something so personal and intimate is unique for each person, which is why people have different boundaries of how far they will/should go. And that doesn’t only apply to sex but all kinds of things like music, film, literature, art etc. that Christians like to set up rules for. But I know that for us, this is the way that God wants us to go, because it’s what is best for us as individuals and a couple on all kinds of different levels.
So this is what I had to say. Sorry it’s kind of long.
Cherry Blossom Girl,
Thank you for this. I know you’ve put in a lot of thought into this response. So first and foremost I wanted to thank you for your time and interest in this conversation.
I have been sitting on this and thinking of how I can respond for a few days now. I know you’ve probably already heard the traditional arguments, so I will spare you those. I’m pretty sure you’ve already heard and thought through a lot of the mainline Christian thoughts on sexuality.
One article that I read today really interested me. This specific author was commenting on sexuality, but further on the topic of Christian Marriages. He was mentioning that we have gone away from the way that marriage maybe should be. That we wait too long to get married. And as a result we have this struggle with sexuality. He argues that we were never meant to be 28 and single. That getting married earlier (but not irresponsibly) is something that we should consider.
It was an interesting twist on an already ongoing conversation. I’m planning on doing a post on it later this week. With that said, I thank you again for your thoughts and invite you to come back and read the posts to come. Hopefully it will be a good addition to this spectrum of thoughts.
-Jenni
Thank you for responding, Jenni. I think we’ve read the same article. I’m really looking forward to your explorations on it.
[...] not come as a surprise that the conversation we started about sex might need some revisiting. The S-E-X article is one of the most read and most commented on, with all of you falling in various parts of the [...]
I’ve come to believe that this is the best personal, ethical guidance (for me, perhaps for others):
1. Can you see yourself married to this person for the rest of your life and raising a family with him/her? (this is important to consider because there are many issues that come with sex, i.e. getting pregnant. If you can’t see yourself raising a family with him/her and you’re not prepared to, then you probably shouldn’t take that risk. Even if you use condoms or birth control, we all know people who got pregnant anyway).
2. Are you HIGHLY COMPATIBLE with this person? This is a very mature question to ask, and you cannot figure this out if you are immature. And you can’t answer it if you haven’t known the person long enough. Compatible could include: you don’t fight often, you have the same values, you have the same ideas for the future, you get along exceptionally well in many decisions of life. Why is compatibility important before having sex? Because you probably want to have a meaningful relationship with this person. You don’t want it to be empty. You can love each other passionately and not be compatible at all. If so, you will likely feel empty afterward, when it doesn’t work out.
3. Do you want to risk giving your future husband/wife/love of your life/epiclove/ or child a disease?
There is some statistic where 80% of the population has a form of herpes and 80% has HPV (including genital warts). With 80%, it is highly likely that you will contract one of these (doesn’t matter if you use a condom, you still get them) and pass it on to your future husband/wife. I doesn’t matter if you hold onto your virginity for a long time, then sleep with one or two people; doesn’t matter if you limit yourself. There’s still a high chance you will contract and pass this on to your “real” life partner. How does your conscience feel about that?
I’m not judging anyone. I’m not against sex. These are just questions I wish I had thought about more before choosing to be intimate with the boyfriend I thought was “meant to be,” and then years later finding someone I thought to be so much more worthy.
hi
the second comment is mine and i put my e-mail in the comment
i wish to ask the owner of this page to help me remove my e-mail please as someone put this comment and used my e-mail on that.
thanks a lot and best regards